I am too sad today to checkout fur is evil. I  gave up fake fur Around age 20, when each of the three times I wore my coat I ended up in the hospital.

You make an excellent point...but in today's corporate world how in the world am I going to find "business" shoes that look appropriate for an office environment that aren't made out of leather/faux leather (I no longer buy leather) but ditching the faux leather is almost impossible these days when it comes to shoes...any help here would be greatly appreciated...I'm all for it if someone can send me links for fashionable/work appropriate shoes (that don't cost a lot of money) that don't look like they are made out of leather...

Coming from someone who became vegetarian/vegan a year ago it's really expensive to replace everything you own ie clothes,shoes,household goods, that were made from an animal...any advice on this??

what about fake leather? is there a possibility that is real too? Im not too sure how you could not use fake leather in life.. there is so much. All my belts are fake leather and so is the stuff in my car. plus my husband has a motorcycle and wears fake leather... I would rather have him wearing fake leather while on a motorcycle than no protection as all. Also many of my shoes are made with fake leather.. i never really saw it as a problem but more that im supproting the fake industry to keep up producing its products..

Many people love there leather or fur and would NEVER just go completly free of it. My mom for example is a huge fan of leather, if it wasnt for the fake leather out there she would have never stopped buying real leather, but thanks to fake leather companies she didnt have an excuse to continue buying real and started to buy fake.. Atleast with fake fur and leather it gives them no excuse to go cruelity free cause they can still get the look they want without killing (if it really is fake)

I believe that as vegans and vegetarains we need to help the demand of fake products go up so that people who do use real products could instead easily go to a store and buy the fake.. If there is no demand for fake products than that store will not have a good demand and could go out of business which gives fur wearers the excuse that "I cant find any place that sells fake fur so i have to make do with real fur" remember people are stubborn and arnt going to drop fur becasue someone says so but they may be more willing to go to fake as a comprimise.

I do get the gist of what your saying though. I just dont agree with boycotting the products that are trying to be cruelity free for people.  How do we expect to have more options out there in the world for vegans and vegetarians if we keep sticking are noses up in the air to everything cause it may give the "wrong" impression to meat eaters.. kinda reminds me of people who dont think you should eat veggie burgers becasue people might think your eating a real burger thus supporting the meat industry.. I just find that a bit stupid...

I do think that we need to crack down on labling since real fur is being labled as fake. Thats a big problem and i am not happy but to boycott is not the right answer your just minimizing the cruelity free products out there in society

ok sorry im done ranting...

Kristen, please check out
www.veganstore.com

Kristen and Amanda, I'm in the middle of a deadline crunch through tomorrow, so I don't have time to respond in detail to your comments and concerns, but I do want to quickly clarify that I was not suggesting people stop buying shoes that may resemble leather (which I've actually never considered "fake leather"--I've always just thought of these materials as what they are). I was asking people to stop buying real and fake fur and to stop buying (real) leather. I'll be happy to expand on this and respond more fully to the other points and questions later.

We just had a looooooong debate about this in the comments at TVG. It makes no sense to claim fake fur is causing harm to non-human animals by promoting the fur industry but leather alternatives (and fake meat and cheese!) don't do the same thing. Just because you don't see PVC leather as "fake leather" doesn't mean everyone else in the world views it the same way (most of us don't) - and I would argue that 90% of people cannot tell the difference between the two anyway. Most people see it as exactly that, so if you're going to argue that faux fur promotes the fur industry, then logically you need to also argue that faux leather promotes the leather industry. Why on earth does it make sense to say people need to stop buying clothing that resembles fur, but they don't need to stop buying clothing that resembles leather? 

There is nothing inherently bad about faux fur - it's just plastic and fabric. While I don't own any, and would probably never purchase any, I don't think buying true faux fur goes against a vegan ethic any more than eating TVP chorizo does. There is no ethical argument against it unless you can prove that it does indeed induce people to buy real fur, in which we can reason consequentially and make the claim that it does harm animals. However, I would like to see some statistics to back up the claim that faux fur is contributing to people purposefully buying real fur. Every statistic I've ever seen has suggested that the fur industry is in a decline, thus we cannot reason consequentially that faux fur harms animals except for in the case of unscrupulous clothing manufactures who substitute real fur for faux fur. That's a real problem, and saying no to faux fur certainly fixes it, but once again it's no different from potential problems with faux leather. 

I certainly agree that we shouldn't be buying real leather, of course... there is certainly an ethical argument there. 

Here's the debate Jen referred to above; it covers this topic fairly extensively:

http://thatvegangirl.com/2009/04/22/vegan-fml/

Deadline crunch continues, so just briefly and without a whole lot of deep thought:

People need to wear shoes. And they need shoes that are, for example, resistant to rain. If such non-animal materials resemble, in appearance, what animal skins also look like once processed, dyed, etc. (i.e., once they don't even look like skin anymore), that can be as much about coincidence as about design. People don't need to wear fur, real or otherwise. Fur has a very specific, very unique look. My New Balance tennis shoes don't look like they came from an animal or like they're designed to look like they came from an animal. Fake fur is designed to look like it came from a dead animal. I see a difference there. There's no mistaking what fake fur is trying to emulate; I don't think you can say the same about shoes made from what some think of as "fake leather."

And I've actually read remarks by people who do wear real fur praising how realistic the look of fake fur has become--because they can then wear their real furs out and tell any admonishers, "Oh, don't worry--it's fake." Part of getting people not to wear fur, whether we like it or not, is making them feel guilty about it--it's the pressure that's put on them by others seeing and judging what they're wearing. If in their social circles where fur is acceptable, they can brag about it being real, and in the circles or situations where it's not, they can lie about it being fake, how does that help stop fur?

I'll check out the TVG comment thread soon, but likely won't have time until at least tomorrow afternoon or night--I don't want to start reading it until I have time to start and finish both.

I don't wear faux fur or pleather, and I don't eat meat and cheese analogs.  Part of the reason for this is that I want to keep things simple. I do know that when you're giving a presentation--either formal or conducting what is basically a conversation, much depends on how you express things.

It's wise to make distinctions between these three topics. For example:
"Faux fur confuses people, and it might not really be fake."  "You might need to wear pleather because of business dress
 codes. Truly most people won't be looking at your shoes and
 if they do be friendly and explain pleather and your reasons."
"If you choose to eat the veggie burgers and cheeses, just 
 read ingredients carefully because many contain milk solids."

That's generally all you have to say. If you're trying to converse with people, even on a podium, keep it simple and friendly. If you're too strident you will lose some.

Someone gave me a "fake-fur" lined vest a couple of years ago. I was very upset because I know there's no way of really knowing whether or not it's real. 

But... oddly enough... a weird coincidence led me to a way of knowing if the fake is really fake.  A lot of cat toys are made with real fur.  I could always tell which ones those were because my cat went crazy for them.  I let him have a go at my vest, see what he thought of the "fake fur" and he had absolutely no interest in it.  I don't buy fake fur items, but for some reason this point escapes those who buy me presents for christmas & birthday...


NB: I don't buy cat toys that are made from real fur anymore.

Ohh They are so adorable... I was reading about the economy and how to save money on msn money a few weeks ago, and they had the nerve to bring up eating possum, squirrels & raccoons to save money.. even links to recipes.. I got to thinking the economy isnt that bad.. If its get that bad I will start eating those dandellions in the back yard, they take a bit like spinach , the green part that is.. stinging nettles are not bad after boild either.. anyway you get the point... great article... thanks..

Why would someone who cares about animals want to wear clothes that resemble a tortured and dead animal anyway?

I have doubts whether wearing fake leather and fur actually encourages people to support the faux industries too.

For every one person to whom you explain, "This is fake, not real," there could be dozens of people who see you, and aren't able to talk with you, who think, "Boy, that's a nice looking jacket," thinking it's real and never learning about faux fur and leather.  

I think it actually hurts the movement (from an AR activist's perspective) and inadvertantly promotes the real thing.

But the bottom line is: why would you want to wear something that looks like a dead animal?   

Daniel,

You have made a very good point. Case in point: I take the train to work and there was this guy wearing a dead fox (hat)on his head (literally it still had ears and everything, totally disgusting) and I really wanted to say something, but I couldn't because I was wearing my coach purse that my Aunt bought me for graduation...I would have been quite hypocritical to say something about his hat when I had a leather purse on my shoulder. So from an AR perspective wearing my leather purse gives the wrong impression.

On the other hand I didn't buy the purse, it's over $400 dollars and my Aunt would probably disown me if she found out I gave it away, not to mention in this economy replacing everything I own that has leather (or feathers) is not something I can afford to do.

About the last comment you made, while fur does still resemble the dead animal it came from, the leather straps on my purse hardly resemble a cow and just look like shiny black straps...(I'm not saying that just because it doesn't look like it came from an animal means it's ok, I'm just pointing out the flaw in the argument).

I'm all for transitioning everything I own to be and look cruelty free, you just can't expect new AR's to be able to afford to in a few months, year, even a few years when it comes to larger items like a couch or car.

Amanda,

I also do agree with you on some level. One of the main reasons that the AR movement is gaining speed is because of the amount of faux alternatives out there...take Tofurkey for example...I LOVE tofurkey, and coming from meat loving family they were willing to substitute a real turkey last thanksgiving for a tofurkey loaf...without that the probably wouldn't have come over for dinner. So alternatives can be beneficial for those making the transition. Believe it or not faux leather is actually still really rare. I have to buy my shoes at payless and target because those are the only places that I know (where I can still go into a store and try them on) that sell shoes not made out of real leather...department stores and designer shoes still use the real thing...payless just came out with a new "organic" line but they are still on the more "casual" than business attire side...I think even Stella Mcartney uses faux leather (I'm not sure about faux fur) in her designs...

Right, Daniel, I don't buy fake fur and I have been gradually losing the leather in my life (difficult for a musician who carries instruments in $800 cases made from wood & leather to replace everything all at once - starting with shoe & belt replacement is easier & cheaper!).

It's people buying me gifts, and like Kristen said, it's hard to justify hurting a loved one's feelings purposefully.  Being vegan is first & foremost about compassion - and compassion for my family is at the top of my list.

Hi Kristen!
I never meant to imply that all leather products look like dead animals; I was referring only to clothes. A leather couch doesn't look like a cow either and while it's difficult to avoid everything that has pieces of animals in it - no doubt my leather-free shoes and parts of my car are held together by glues derived from horses - the point is that it's not necessary or even desirable for vegans or people concerned with animal rights to wear clothes that look like or are traditionally associated with the skins of other animals.
Hope this clarifies.

I'm vegan and bought a (truly) fake fur coat years ago for $40 on eBay when I couldn't find any other nice looking, affordable, warm, wool-free coat. It wasn't that warm though and despite it looking pretty fake to me and the fact that I wore a big "no fur" button on it, I still got asked if it was real. Then I got a pea coat from Pangea (veganstore.com), and now only wear my fake fur when I want something that looks more formal. I have thought about embellishing the back of it with something like "Fake for The Animals' Sake" in rhinestones. Thankfully, the selection of vegan coats is improving.

Who even wears fur anymore?!? It seems like most civilized Americans are against fur, and only a few vile individuals still buy it. Who is the biggest fur market? Europe? China?
I personally don't know anyone who would dare to wear fur. Why is it even still legal to do this?!?!?!?!?!?
I am no longer using Google to search. I will tell all my friends and family to boycott them.

i don't think there's anything wrong with wearing faux fur. by that same token, it would mean we should not be wearing fake leather. i know you addressed this in a comment, but i don't see how the issue is separate. several people have asked me if my purse or shoes are leather because they look like it, and when i say no, i enjoy their surprise that i have managed to veganize most aspects of my life.

i also think your point of view would mean eating faux meat sets a bad example. i am not sure what your position is on this yet. i do believe we need to create vegan alternatives in this market, but that doesn't mean we can't follow trends and open up doors for new markets that are cruelty-free. i think the general public prefers a positive "yes, you can" [wear this cruelty-free stuff] message as opposed to a negative message.

but the most intriguing thing i'd like to read is your reference to the HSUS investigation that found faux fur was real. we need more animal rights marketplace watchdogs because that is B.S!!!

I'm curious what you all think of faux-fur articles of clothing that look like stuffed toy animals, instead of mimicking real fur.  Here's two examples of this style in fox scarves:  http://th08.deviantart.com/fs36/300W/f/2008/265/0/1/White_fox_scarf_by_pekingin_ankka.jpghttp://dunedin.art.museum/exhibitionimages/%7B1590643D-DA8B-48EF-9224-3F860AD32641%7D.jpg

The first one is a little more realistic, with ears and glass eyes, and the second is less realistic, with googly eyes and no ears.I've also seen these taxidermy stuffed animals: http://indiefixx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/feltimdermy_cute1.jpg
I can kind of see both sides.  On the one hand, it's very clear that these aren't real animals, so there's no way they're confusing people.  On the other hand, in some ways they seem to trivialize death, almost making fun of it.  Most people's reactions to the "feltidermy" plushies seems to be "Oh, how cute!" which I find kind of creepy.  Something mimicking a dead animal is cute?  Then again, if I were to wear faux fur, I would want it to be something like the fox scarf with the googly eyes, where it's very clearly not real and it's clear that I don't want it to look real.
I also wonder what you think of people who don't buy new fur, but wear vintage furs, claiming that it's good for the environment because it's preventing the fur from getting thrown in the trash.  They say because they're buying secondhand the money never goes to people who kill animals or support killing animals.  Nevertheless, it IS real fur.

I personally wouldn't wear real or faux fur. Fur belongs on the animals not humans. I don't believe animals should suffer in the name of vanity. I think taxidermy is creepy & there is no way I would do that to my pet when his time is up. I would either cremate him & scatter his ashes over his favourite spot or bury him in his favourite spot & plant a memorial tree on top of his plot.

First of all to answer the question, who's still wearing fur?  Plenty of peopel unfortunately.  Last winter i went to the theater in Detroit to see 'Wicked' and upon exiting through the theater lobby I was engulfed in a sea of women ( and some men) wearing the fur coats.
Secondly, as for accepting gifts made of leather or fur and then using or wearing them because you don't want to hurtthe givers feelings...c'mon!  Learn to just say no!  Meat eaters will keep pushing you on that stuff as long as they think they can if you let them.  It's like my mom offering me meals that she tries to assure me "only have a little bit of meat that won't hurt me", or meat based stock in the soup, etc.  A couple christmas's ago she gave me an expensive  leather purse knowing full well I don't wear leather.  I told her right there that although I appreciated the gift, I would not be usingit because I don't wear leather, but would gladly return for something I COULD use.  My mom was fine with it - it was my leather coat wearing sister who called to scold me later.
Stick to your gun's people or you are only hurting the animals.

fur is more popular than ever, which is why critics need to step up and challenge the celebrities who are leading the resurgence.

Thanks for this.  I'm in agreement with you, and try to avoid animal products whenever possible.  Fur is one "product" that is very, very easy to avoid, as is fake fur.  I also advocate for ostracising (and that means via the credit card or wallet, too) those who insist on partaking in this totally senseless, avoidable, and anachronistic form of "fashion".  There has to be something inherently cruel or callous about a person who, knowing the facts, would still contribute to this cruelty.  As for fake fur, why would you???

Reading these posts make me thoroughly disgusted.  I remember years ago as a youngster one of my hooty tooty aunts strolled around with a mink stole.  You could see the muzzle of the poor little creatures whose lives were taken for the sake of vanity.  Well Ms. High Society has long since met her Maker and what did this showboating get her?  I don't know if her daughter inherited it or it was wrapped around her neck when they nailed the lid down.  I was never around the family that much and really didn't care about what happened to them.  What are we going to do about the barbaric slaughter of the little animals in China?  Not one damn thing.  They're our banker and as I understand we are in hock to them for over six hundred billion.  Homo sapiens makes me want to puke.  What will happen when all of God's creatures are gone?  I guess cannibalism will reach an all-time high.  Said my piece, thanks for the great posts you all and best wishes.

I know that many people buy clothes without thinking what is involved in making them (sort of like eating). So, what I have started to do is share some of the details, either by speaking with them about it, sending them emails, or videos, to show the atrocities that humans commit without any compassion.

This really does help people change their ways. One useful video that I send is called "The Witness", which features animal activist Eddie Lama. You can get this from one of my favorite vegetarian sites at:

http://www.thevegetariansite.com

Then click on "Videos and DVDs" link.