Ian, I am sure that you mean well, and I imagine that you think you have these dogs' best interests at heart, but honestly, my automatic reaction to this argument--when anyone presents it (you're one of many)--is simply "What a load of crap."

Many dogs may indeed love running and playing, including in very cold weather, but no dog lives "to run on a sled dog team." I like taking scenic bike rides, but I've no interest in being tied to a bunch of other riders, hitched up to a cart, and forced to ride wherever, for however long, and in whatever conditions someone else forces me to. I've no desire to be pushed beyond my limits, to be treated as a tool, to have my well-being and indeed my life risked so that the jerk in the cart can win some attention and a prize.

Until dogs start hitching themselves together and to the sled and get to decide for themselves where and for how long they'll run, without someone slave-driving them, they are not running "out of choice."

I do not claim to know the right ways of this raise or what animals truly do feal. All I know is that when animals are abused in any way, you can see the fear in their eyes when either the means of abuse or the person doing the abusing is near. They cower, and they are skidish.

When I am around sled dogs and they see that sled or the harness, they are jumping all over it, smilling, looking so exstatic (as if it were time to play fetch when a ball obsessed dog sees a ball) just in the best mood good see them. And because of this, I find it hard to believe that these dogs are being tortured, that generally leads to a skidish animal.

I may be wrong but this is the impression I get. I am from Alaska and lived there for most of my life. I was around these dogs at some point every winter. Because of this I feel I have some grounds to base my opinion on, other then what is just read or seen on T.V. I lived with the culture, I saw the dogs in person. It was not edited or taken out of context.

I say all of this with the biggest open mind. I love to hear others experiences with these dogs. Please share your peronel experiences with sled dogs in your life, I enjoy it when others can change my mind.

I must agree with Ian on this one.  As much as I love animals and Canines in particular.   Most of if not all of the dogs that run the race have been bread for that type of activity for centuries.

It is in their blood and they do enjoy what they do. Further more there is a whole class of dogs called working breeds and you can be sure these dogs are some of the most fit and healthy in the dog world.        Now, if a master of a team notices that one of his dogs is in danger of harm or overexertion and pushes that dog further that's another thing.

I feel stricter rules for the dog's welfare in the race or any animal competition for that matter should be implemented.  However, I could not side with those who might say ban the race, sport or competition that any animal or even people might get hurt in.
Aloha and God Bless, Walt.


By the way, I have asked before and I will try again here.  Can you Stephanie, or anyone else tell me why the featured and weekly actions on animal rights never seem to change.
(no pun intended)

I wonder if this logic, what one has been "breed to do," would extend to members of our species.

Leaving aside the obvious question -- How do we justify creating a being for the sole end of being used by any "Master"? --, if an animal, human or otherwise, outwardly appears to be excited about a certain activity this may have been evolutionarily advantages and therefore understandable outside the question begging context of "they must like it." If X's ancestors were enthusiastic about their specific use it is more likely that X would come into existence. However, that doesn't go to refute the obvious harm associated with the activity in any logically coherent way.

The question then becomes: How do you continue to justify harming (unless you argue that the death mentioned here isn't "harm") a dog for this or that purpose? You must rely on "entertainment" or "tradition," which are ethically irrelevent in any other context (Could I force my friend to suffer because it's the tradition of my culture to do so?) and therefore must be in this context as well if we are to remain consistent.  

It is within this framework that we can ask questions about horse or greyhound racing, dog fights (Walt and Ian's logic would certainly extend to dog fighting), and other forms of animal exploitation. Until we answer this question, the other points raised in defense of this practice are moot.

A population of human slaves, exploited for another's end for generations, may have exhibited certain signs of agreement or enthusiasm over their particular activity; they may have taken pride in doing their "job" well. However, this is a non-issue unless we can justify exploiting them for the purpose of doing said job. Likewise, there doesn't seem to be an ethically defensible reason for dog racing, horse racing, the Iditarod, or dog fighting that can stand as a challenge to those who would say that the inevitable suffering and death - and it is absolutely inevitable - involved in these practices needs to be justified. 

The cruelty part, from an Animal Welfare standpoint, is that the dogs are pushed beyond their limits simply to win a prize for their owners.

Taken from:
http://www.helpsleddogs.org/remarks-saraceno2004.htm

>>More than an estimated 120 dogs have perished during the history of the race, which gives a Humanitarian Award. The number of dog deaths does not include animals that perished afterward — or the thousands that have been injured. Death is merely an occupational hazard — for the dogs. In 1973, the race's first year, the Iditarod took more than 20 days to complete. Two years ago, a speed record was set when Martin Buser finished the race in less than nine days.<<

That's 120 dogs that died (and didn't have to) for a race.  I agree with the other poster.  There is a difference between wanting to run because you enjoy it and being pushed beyond your limits because someone is forcing you to win a prize.  I don't give a damn about any entertainment that endangers animals.

Also, I think there is some confusion. This is not an Animal Welfare blog.  It's Animal Rights.  Welfare means that you want the animals to be treated nicely but it's okay to use them for your own purposes.  Animal Rights means that humans have no right to use animals for our own purposes - whether it's to kill them for food (which is completely unnecessary), exploit them for the products of their bodies (eggs, dairy), forcibly breed them, or exploit them for entertainment.  Animals should have the right to their own lives and their own bodies.

As far as using the word "slave" - forcing someone to do what you want whether they want to or not, I think that applies here.  I doubt these dogs want to be run to death.

I tried to answer your questions the best I could.  :) Please let me know if you have any more.

Ian and Walt, the "they love it" argument is irrelevant, even if many of the dogs do love the race--or part of it anyway, before it becomes far too much. For a moment, let's assume some or many of the dogs do initially enjoy the race. These people racing them are supposed to be these dogs' caregivers, right? Well, how many things do kids, for example, enjoy doing that adults prohibit them from doing because they, unlike the kids, know the dangers involved? Would you put a child in your care in a situation you know could cause her injury or even death and insist it's OK because she likes it?

And this isn't even a matter of allowing dogs to do something dangerous (which would be a different matter for another discussion) but forcing them to do something dangerous. And again, Ian, yes, they are forced. They are tied together and to a sled by humans. They are forced to run that great distance with as little rest as possible by humans.

It's astonishing to me when people argue that the dogs choose and love this--that anyone would argue that these dogs would choose to be tied together and dragging a sled across forced great distances over, for example, just running free for however long they want in a safe open space. Running over a thousand miles in just 1-2 weeks in harsh conditions and with little downtime--are you really suggesting that any dog would do that on his own, would choose to do that?

I still am confused as to how these dogs are forced to do this, you are saying as if they are being whiped or punished if they do not run? Which is not true so I am still confused.

One thing I must mention. Do not ever tell me a racing dog is the same as a fighting dog. Fighting dogs are forced to fight, and if they do not comply wit the owner they are beaten and physically injured. This does not happen to sled dogs so do not ever say it is the same.

So if all the above is true and the dogs feel, act, and have the excitement about racing as a dog may when someone is playing fetch with him (which dogs have died doing) Then dogs should no longer be allowed to play fetch, because well, it is something they could get injured doing whether they like it or not.

The extreme weather they are put in is not an excuse either, wolved live in these temperatures which are the same species as the dogs so yo umust remove the wolved to because they may get cold and die.

As far as the human leading the dogs and say, "they love it" so they should not put the dogs into harms way. ( they try there very best to ensure the safety of these dogs and truly love each and everyone of their dogs). Accidents do happen, but they happen to every species, to speceis doing what they love.

Compare the dogs to kids. Ok you say a parent would not ever allow a child to do something the at may call injury or death...Partents allow their kids to ski and ride in a car. Skiing is very dangerous, yet there kids are more then allowed to do this on a weekly basis. You may want to look into how many people die from skiing each yeat.

I still ahve not seen any good proof as to why these dogs are forced to run, and really do not enjoy it. I hope each and everyone of you could actually spend sometime in these situation with these animals (both man and canine) and see the true love that is shared between the team and the care these dogs receive before just picking bits and peices out of articles and only being open to opinions by other who have never even been around these animals.

Also, everyone seems to be fixed on the "race" of the whole sled dog thing. Many villages in Alaska use dog sled to travel. It is the only way to get from one place to another for them.

I did forget a couple things and this will have to be my last post because this conversation can go on forever, but I will contine to read what goes on so I can expand my opinions.

I am not saying that abuse does not happen on the trail, and it may. I do not agree with that and I feel it is wrong. Maybe stronger rules need to be put into place to prevent this. But cruelty to animals will happen no matter what, race or no race. Dogs should not e foreced into things they do not want to do and should not be beat.

The race is also set up where there are mandatory breaks for the teams throughout. One that is 24 hours in length and must be taken at some point. On top of that I have personally seen a dog team stop all together as if they wanted to rest. They stoped, laid down and took a break, just like that. I don't see how it was not by choice.

For those of you who are going off of third and fourth hand information about dog sledding in Alaska. I hope you can take the time to contact some of these mushers personally, contact the vets that are involved in the race, contact the local villages (those that have phone service that is) and find out some information. Just go to the source and have a regular conversation with some of these people and get their persepective on things, the ones who are truly in the race to make sure nothing bad happens.

Also please look into the why the Ididarod race was started, at lease to know the background of why it became what it was. It saved an entire village from dying, and is not only caried on because of a sport but because of tradition.

Ian,

Why doesn't the dog fighting analogy follow? From your own premises, many individual dogs (and breeds) have been generationally selected-out because they aren't physically or psychologically equipped for this purpose, their "joy" is allegedly manifested in their eagerness to perform - and they do perform as undercover investigations have proven - and certainly some "owners" "love" their fighting dogs and otherwise prevent the animal from being harmed (outside of their purpose, of course). On each of these points, the logic extends; absent a defense to the contrary, you merely disagree with one form of exploitation, albeit defensible exploitation by your own argument.

We are having a problem of over-generalization here, however. I can't possibly claim that "all" fighting dogs do X, Y, and Z; as you can't claim all of these dogs do X,Y, and Z. However, on the merits of your own logic, it would seem that A) it certainly extends to our own species and B) you must also defend other practices to remain consistent with your defense here. You want to assume that all fighting dogs are beaten, etc.; however, you can't say that any more than I can say the same about the dogs in question.         

Ian, defending any practice by an appeal to "tradition" doesn't follow ethically. Indeed, racism is strongly rooted in such an appeal; as was the continuation of human slavery. You need an alternative defense besides "It saved an entire village from dying, and is not only carried on because of a sport but because of tradition."

What remains is the "it's a sport" defense, which can't reasonably justify the harm caused as outlined above.

I have explained to you why showing enthusiasm doesn't follow to there isn't anything wrong with the practice. My explanation rested on evolutionary mechanisms, as well as an analogy to human slavery.

What I see here are two extremest in reply to Ian.
One that feels man should have never bread any animal for any purpose. The other seems to feel people should eat nothing but plant matter.

I'm sure both are great people and have their heart's in the right place. However, just a little to extreme.  

I am not an authority on the race and I thank you Stephanie for bringing to light the fact that over the years the dogs are being pushed harder and harder.

As I stated in my first comment the animals welfare, or should I say to appease Ganymeder, animals in any sport or any situation for that matter have the right to be cared for first.
 
Also I would like to add that we are sharing about the race Not comparing what domestic animals were bread for with what certain people have had to endure in the past or present. 

If animals and people were to do only things that had no chance of any harm, both animals and people would be doing nothing there whole boring life.

Last but most important to me.!!!!  If you feel the need again sometime to suggest that there is any simulation whatsoever between animals competing in sports with dog fighting, YOU BETTER JUST KEEP MY NAME OUT OF IT!!!    GOT THAT??

>>>Last but most important to me.!!!!  If you feel the need again sometime to suggest that there is any simulation whatsoever between animals competing in sports with dog fighting, YOU BETTER JUST KEEP MY NAME OUT OF IT!!!    GOT THAT??<<<

What?  What are you talking about?  And why are you shouting?

I in no way support the torture or abuse of any animal but if all of you would get off your high & mighty pedestal and come to Alaska and take the time to actually meet some of these mushers & their dogs then I will listen and respect what you have to say. 

These dogs regardless of what your self righteous point of view is ARE breed to do this....they live to do this. The mushers who raise and race these dogs love and care for them better then alot of families do their own pets.

Unfortunately there are deaths during this race both human& animal, just as there are deaths in lots of other sports. Lets just look at the number of football players that died of heat exhaustion this football season alone. I don't see any of you yelling and shouting how inhumane football is and because of these hand full of deaths we need to stop football as a sport. No we look at what caused these deaths and make changes to the sport to help prevent them in the future, just as the Iditarod community does every year for its sport. Does making changes mean you eliminate deaths in football no, but what you hope to do is educate as many as possible so that there are not as many deaths.

Just had to speak up since I actually live in Alaska and was raised in Alaska unlike 99% of you making posts on something you clearly know NOTHING about other then the one week out of the year you get to see 2 minutes of new coverage on.

For those who say the dogs enjoy this "sport", I only ask you one question:

If you were tied to a post for the better part of your life and the only freedom you had was when you were harnessed to a bunch of other people and allowed to finally run, wouldn't you also be happy in that moment?

That truth does not necessarily mean that these dogs wouldn't rather do something else even if they enjoy the relative freedom of pulling the sled. Unfortunately, many sled dogs are treated exactly like that - given some minor shelter, fed and watered most of the time, but not given the freedom to just be dogs, with or without people around, and just enjoy their lives.

The few mushers who actually treat their sled dogs as pets the rest of the year are, unfortunately, the exception rather than the rule. Until man can recognize that other sentient beings have life needs of their own, we will continue to read about deaths in this as well as every other enterprise that utilizes animals as commodities instead of lives.

>>if all of you would get off your high & mighty pedestal and come to Alaska and take the time to actually meet some of these mushers & their dogs then I will listen and respect what you have to say. >Unfortunately there are deaths during this race both human& animal, just as there are deaths in lots of other sports. Lets just look at the number of football players that died of heat exhaustion this football season alone. I don't see any of you yelling and shouting how inhumane football is and because of these hand full of deaths we need to stop football as a sport>Just had to speak up since I actually live in Alaska and was raised in Alaska unlike 99% of you making posts on something you clearly know NOTHING about other then the one week out of the year you get to see 2 minutes of new coverage on.<<

Just because you live in the areas does not automatically make you right or invalidate our points. 

I apologize for the above post.  Somehow I managed to cut off peices of it.  I'll try again...

>>if all of you would get off your high & mighty pedestal and come to Alaska and take the time to actually meet some of these mushers & their dogs then I will listen and respect what you have to say. Unfortunately there are deaths during this race both human& animal, just as there are deaths in lots of other sports. Lets just look at the number of football players that died of heat exhaustion this football season alone. I don't see any of you yelling and shouting how inhumane football is and because of these hand full of deaths we need to stop football as a sportJust had to speak up since I actually live in Alaska and was raised in Alaska unlike 99% of you making posts on something you clearly know NOTHING about other then the one week out of the year you get to see 2 minutes of new coverage on.<<

Just because you live in the areas does not automatically make you right or invalidate our points.

Okay, Im sorry but I've replied twice and my post has been chopped up twice.  Summary: simple disagreement does not equal high and mighty.  Football players choose and sled dogs can't.  Living in Alaska does not automatically make you right.

I'm sorry it's not more eloquent, but I've tried twice and my post was weirdly condensed twice.  I give up. :(

I imagine that sled racing (something about which i know very little) is a lot like horse racing (something about which i know a great deal) - if the animal doesn't love to run, it won't stay in the sport for long. A horse that doesn't like to run (and specifically, win) won't be made to because it won't win - it's a waste of both the horse's time and the humans'.  Someone made the argument that it should be the human's job to limit dangerous activity, like a parent, and i agree that it is the human's responsibility to make sure their animals are happy, healthy, and not asked to do anything dangerous. But everything in life has *some* risk short of sitting around all day - the key is to weigh those risks carefully (and if your numbers on sled dog death rates are true, then that means they need to look at ways to reduce that rate to zero or almost zero, not do away with the sport entirely). And just because a few individuals *don't* act responsibly doesn't mean the whole idea of racing is somehow torture...

i'm already anticipating a number of responses to this, and believe me, i have good replies to all of them. but i'm not in the mood to argue those points for pages and pages. My point here is that these working animals really do have to love what they do or else they simply aren't any good at it.

Tradition is not a good reason to defend anything, but I see no compelling reason to end this tradition either. Change it perhaps, but not end it.

Because an animal has a certain characteristic doesn't mean that we should be taking advantage of them for the sake of our own personal ego gratification which is what this is all about.  Same for horse racing Kristen.  It is all about ego and money and nothing more.  You do not do it because you simply want to enrich the life of the animals involved because if that was the case, you wouldn't breed untold numbers of them, seeking to find the fastest.  How many horses are bred each year, how many dogs (and think of the greyhound industry here too) and how many don't make the cut?  What happens to all of them?  There are not enough homes for dog or horse to go around and yet these industries (because that is exactly what they are) still exist.  If a beings natural ability was a real justification for it "use", then there are a lot of people around that we could use as paperweights.

Most horse owners race horses becasue they love them. Most dog owners race them because they love their dogs, and the dogs love to run and pull.

There are probably a few bad apples, just as in any area of life, but the majority love their animals and follow all the rules set out to maintain health for their animals.

Yes, becasue an animal has a certian characteristic, DOES mean that it loves to do what it is made to do. There are some that don't and so won't. Being pack animals that prefer the cold and snow, these dogs prefer to be harnessed and pull thier master in the snow.

That is their fun. It's why the masters get kisses of thanks afterward!

Dogs are FORCEd to ride in cars, which are inherently dangerous, to go to the vet, which they definitely don't want to do, so is that cruelty too?

A whip is used in horse racing, but it doesn't actually hurt the horse. I am quite sure given the thickness of a dog's coat, and the thinness of a single tailed whip, that the purpose of the whip like with horses, is the snapping noise it makes, not a lash or cut on the dog.
As to the fellow who hits and kicks his dogs, he is clearly an asshole. They are in every sport.
Glad to tire you Stephanie, my kids often win the day with the "wear em down" method of argument.
The difference is, the dog WANTS to be tied to the sled and run for miles and miles,  more miles and far faster than a human can, hence the need for the sled (given that roller blades are not a choice in the Arctic temperatures.)
I would contend that the exercise a dog gets being harnessed to a sled is actually healthy for him. It is the Owner and lead dog's job to avoid the dangers in the terrain, and that comes with experience and intelligence.

You kinda proved my point honey. The dog needs to go to the vet (and most dogs love the car) and the dog needs to exercise, and an owner's job is to determine what is the best way to acheive those ends. An Iditarod may not be your choice for your dog, but if you had a Huskey, and saw their natural temperment and preference for cold and pulling, you may change you mind about what is "right" for all dogs and Owners.

As soon as you let it rest Honey.

We should just set them all free to roam as they please which will result in the animals fighting and mating in the street. Go to a third world country and see what "freedom" looks like for a dog. They don't look happy. They don't look healthy. They do look free to as they please whenever they please, without human guidance.
What is y our final solution for dogsled racing? No more breeding of Huskies and other sledogs? Banishing sleds or making them illegal?
Animal rights is the right for animals to have happy healthy and productive lives.

I asked what you would do to resolve the problem, and you attack me and call me a "you people?"

What is your solution?

I think this conversation has run its course, and I'm closing comments at this time.